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June 22, 2005
I have to say although i'm a little late on this one, i have not been such a patriotic person in my past. But last year i visited Puerto Rico. My Dad was born there and My mother's parents were born there. So on this 4 day trip I felt something and it made me feel at home on this little island. So... after that i've been feeling very patriotic with PuertoRico. so much that on the day of the PuertoRican Day Parade i got a little flag of my own and put it on my bicycle as i rode from the Bronx to Riis Beach, Coney Island, and back to Ft Greene. My fellow PuertoRicans kept honking their horns at me as they passed by. In response to some of the posting on this picture, I have to disagree in the idea that patriotism is a big American thing. Most if not all countries have a flag and a national anthem. and although governments may use that to hide their misdeeds i'm not so sure patriotism is a bad thing. one can be patriotic and still politically correct. yea?
Victor
http://jouvert.net
June 22, 2005
"How is it possible to have these values as a country but at the same time (looking back in history) having them for only one part of the population." Very good topic Martin, one that has not been resolved. The problem is that America was founded by white Christians who felt that white Christians like themselves shouldn't be persecuted. It wasn't until later that the Declaration of Independence was taken to its logical conclusion that "All men are created equal" applies to ALL people who live under our laws. The fact of the matter is that America is designed to be a work in progress by the founders. The best testament of the founders was that although they would have been seen today as elitist and racist they did realize at the time that they didn't know everything and allowed for the system (amendments to the constitution) to make changes for the better. (Some might say for worse, but at least the constitution allows for open debate.) The current disagreements among Americans are generally about the future course of the evolution. In general I think we are pretty much in agreement about the greatness of our founding though, hence bizarre displays of patriotism.
Ian Webster
http://www.hazard-county.com
June 21, 2005
"How is it possible to have these values as a country but at the same time (looking back in history) having them for only one part of the population." (1) This country has a long history of trying to do the right thing, and of getting better. (2) In honor of tonight's AFI awards for the best lines in films, the closing of "Some Like it Hot": "Nobody's perfect!"
David Chesler
http://home.comcast.net/~chesler/Blog
June 21, 2005
I appreciate all your comments! This is a very interesting topic... The singing of the Star Spangled Banner, as Ian mentiond, is a good example as well. I went to a baseball game and to a basketball game in New York once. All people got up, put their hands on their chest and sang the Star Spangled Banner. This would be unthinkable in Austria. If you do this back home, people think you are either crazy or nationalist. One main difference between the old world (Europe) and the new world (USA) might also be that we do not have core values on which our countries have been build since it's the "older world". There might be but they aren't that omnipresent. So is it all about the history? When have these values been set and who set them? As far as I understand one of the core values has always been freedom. How is it possible to have these values as a country but at the same time (looking back in history) having them for only one part of the population.Might be a difficult topic but it's not been that long ago that racial segregation was legal in the US. I don't mean to provocate but I really want to understand the differences and difficulties. Thanks again for all comments that have been posted so far and for all the ones which might follow!
Martin Fuchs
June 20, 2005
From an American's point of view regarding our usage of flags, one theory I have is that patriotism (represented in one way by flag flying) is America's only shared religion. It is the one thing that ties everyone, a shared appreciation for the idea of America, the principals of freedom on which it was founded. For myself, I don't feel the government represents me very well, but the core American ideals, represented by the flag, do. For those of you interested in another (strange?) expression of nationalism go to a baseball game and catch the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.
Ian Webster
http://www.hazard-county.com
June 19, 2005
I just found your website from Andreas and I have to say I'm your new biggest fan. Keep up the great work!
Rob Curran
http://www.robcurran.net
June 19, 2005
Personaly I feel the same as you Martin, I don't feel any special proudness of my country, and I don't see any need to either. Eventhough I live in Sweden and was born here, I prefer seeing myself as International rather than Swedish.
Andreas Climent
http://www.karmacube.com
June 19, 2005
Dr Samuel Johnson said: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". No person or country is perfect. I am Australian but I was born in England, am Eurasian and have been living in Asia for 6 years. My identity is not driven by the physical location of my birth or country of citizenship or where my home is. I think that is what worries me about flag waving. People are so much more than the country they were accidentally born into.
Jon
http://igloomelts.blogspot.com/
June 18, 2005
" The flag’s been hijacked and turned into a logo — the trademark of a monopoly on patriotism. On those Sunday morning talk shows, official chests appear adorned with the flag as if it is the good housekeeping seal of approval. During the State of the Union, did you notice Bush and Cheney wearing the flag? How come? No administration’s patriotism is ever in doubt, only its policies. And the flag bestows no immunity from error. When I see flags sprouting on official lapels, I think of the time in China when I saw Mao’s little red book on every official’s desk, omnipresent and unread." (c)Bill Moyers http://www.freepress.net/news/8120 I think this flag thing is a part of the show-of-macho mentality that US seems to possess in recent times..
eugene ray
http://eugeneray.blogspot.com/
June 18, 2005
Nice shot man!
pierre-nelson
http://pierrenavarra.free.fr/


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New York Street Photographs Part I

A Backstage Look At Magnum Photos New York

Puerto Rican Day Parade and 116th Street Festival

Multimedia Gallery: 9/11 commemoration
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Two more American National Flags II

General Loft - Two more American Flags flying

This is another photograph of my loose collection of American flags withing photos. After posting the last two I got an e-mail from a former Co-Op City resident writing that he heard similarly from other young Europeans that American patriotism strikes them as unusual. Here is an excerpt of that e-mail:

"I've heard similarly from other young Europeans that American patriotism strikes them as unusual. (In one case I'd mentioned to a Dutch epenpal that I'd gone with my children and my father-in-law to my town's small Memorial Day service and parade.) I think the primary difference is that in American the nation, the government, and the people have always been the same thing. The flag does not represent a government which rules us, it represents the people that we are. As a nation of immigrants, there is not symbol of our identity that is not a symbol of the country. And while we've lost soldiers, the country has never been truly devastated by war to the degree much of Europe has been, so the people find both war and its trappings -- which is how Europeans tend to see any signs of nationalism -- less distasteful. (That's a positive reinforcement cycle: since we fly flags other than at times of war, and other than when flown by the goverment and its armed forces, we don't view flags as part of the war machine, and we are thus more likely to fly them.) How does a European express "I am proud and glad to be part of this greater community"?"

I think this is an interesting point of view. Of course I can mainly speak about Austrians only. But I think that Europeans generally do not feel the need to express that they are proud and glad to be part of this greater community. Why? Because I don't think that Europeans see theirselfs as part of a great community. I don't think that the majority of Austrians are proud to be Austrian. At least I am not. I wouldn't want to be American or French, Italian, Chinese or whatever as well because I do think that the country doesn't really matter. I couldn't be proud to be born in a certain country just because of this country...
Am I wrong? Would be great if you'd leave your opinions on that as a comment on this site.

Posted by Martin Fuchs on June 18, 2005 03:50 PM
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